On Episode #1732 of the Joe Rogan Experience, Rogan talks with Ben Shapiro about Mark Zuckerberg and virtual reality (VR), specifically the Metaquest VR device. With the prominence of VR and AR it was still a hot topic by the time Zuckerberg’s appearance on episode #1863 aired, and there’s still much to argue on the topic today.
Virtual Reality – Quest 2
Joe Rogan doesn’t hold back, calling virtual reality a “crazy idea”. He sees it as giving your real life to an augmented world, and doesn’t trust it. Rogan thinks letting Mark Zuckerberg have control of what we see and feel is incredibly dangerous. Ben Shapiro is on the same wavelength, and dreadfully anticipates it happening. While Rogan and Shapiro are both against social media’s new direction, Shapiro acknowledges that they’re from a “different generation,” seeing this as appealing to a younger demographic who are used to invasive technology usage.
Ben Shapiro points to the pandemic as a major reason behind mass use of screens. He explains that being isolated was extremely tough for people like him, but not so much for those who spend a lot of time online. VR provides an outlet to some people which can dangerously isolating. Although users may be a part of online communities, the unhealthy components of the systems may outweigh the benefits.
While he may not agree with it, Ben Shapiro sees the appeal. He poses a question to Rogan, asking if people would stick in their unsatisfying real worlds if they could pick one where they were immediately perceived as rich and attractive.
Video Games
Joe Rogan believes it will still take time for mass adoption of virtual reality, with it needing to look indistinguishable from reality for universal appeal. He’s not sure when that will happen, offering suggestions of both five and ten years. It might seem crazily close, but he relates it to how far we’ve come in the short time since the first video game he ever saw, Pong.
Ben Shapiro asks if we’re “innovating ourselves out of existence.” Rogan agrees, but hits back with the question, “don’t you think that’s probably where this goes, no matter what?” The two enter a discussion on the drawbacks a virtual based world would have. Taking it to an extreme level, Shapiro hypothesises an augmented reality world where no one has children. While people would have a fun time in virtual reality, the human race would quickly die out.
Joe Rogan’s idea examines an extreme vulnerability. He comments that if people lose power, they lose what they’ve made their entire life. Rogan equates it to “dropping a nuclear bomb on a culture.”
Ben Shapiro comes out with a comparison of his own. He sees it as putting a wild animal into a cage. After enough time, that animal can no longer go back into the wild. He fears that if humans spend too much time in virtual reality, the changes on human behaviour will be irreversible.
Shapiro contrasts with another culture, China. Their country has rules banning children from playing online games during school days, and limits the amount they can play to one hour a day on weekends. The political commentator views this as a positive, preferring China’s understanding of human vulnerabilities to the West’s exploitation of them.
Joe Rogan & Ben Shapiro On COVID Lockdowns
Ben Shapiro slams pandemic rules, being disturbed at how quickly humans became accustomed to them. His business partner, Jeremy Boreing, believed that people would be protesting the rules in three months. Shapiro thought longer, guessing a year. He was shocked when people were still living with the rules over a year and a half after their implementation.
Shapiro explains this by pointing out that humans are extremely adaptable, but adds that this is sometimes to “our own detriment.” With our capacity of adjusting to different circumstances, Shapiro fears that it’ll be easy to drug ourselves with exploitative technology.
Ben Shapiro refers to the work of philosopher Robert Nozick, relating them to modern times. In his 1974 book Anarchy, State and Utopia, he presents a theory about an ‘experience machine’. He muses on whether people would plug into a machine that gave them the illusion of choice and regular dopamine hits from these decisions. His conclusion is that people wouldn’t, as they want to feel as if their life has real world consequences and meaning.
Shapiro adds onto this theory for the modern world, posing a question that wasn’t on Nozick’s mind in the 20th century: what if everyone you knew was in that experience machine?
Joe Rogan comments that the optimism of the theory is outdated, now that we have access to highly sophisticated computer programs. The podcast host observes on how many people are already addicted to less immersive forms of social media, worrying about the impact on a virtual experience.
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